tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1866132022161856151.post2361627683548469270..comments2023-10-06T15:01:30.680-04:00Comments on The Dikdukian: The Double ModifierShtiklerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07498936768989355610noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1866132022161856151.post-31071156281542187922010-03-21T17:05:41.403-04:002010-03-21T17:05:41.403-04:00I once read that in Lashon Kodesh 2 semichus on 1 ...I once read that in Lashon Kodesh 2 semichus on 1 nismach would be in this form: <br />כלי המשכן וקרשיו.<br />Not<br />כלי וקרשי המשכן.<br /><br />I am currently seeking a source for this rule and if it is true.<br /><br />But assuming it is, then<br />כל נדר וכל שבועת<br />is definitely not samuch. Had it been, it would say<br />כל נדר אסר וכל שבועתו.Leonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1866132022161856151.post-1039054538123402852009-07-20T01:41:28.274-04:002009-07-20T01:41:28.274-04:00Ok, so, dare I ask: Is there an answer to this non...Ok, so, dare I ask: Is there an answer to this non-burning, uninteresting question as to what determines if there will be a צרי or סגול under the first letter?Shtiklerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07498936768989355610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1866132022161856151.post-49151568154690212932009-07-17T20:26:24.884-04:002009-07-17T20:26:24.884-04:00Um, ok.
Now that that's settled, your burning ...Um, ok.<br />Now that that's settled, your burning question isn't very interesting, at least from a dikduk standpoint. There are many, many words like this. Case in point: "נסך" is found with a סגול and with a צרי.<br />As far as סמיכות goes, you're simply barking up the wrong tree. Words with two segols do not change their form under סמיכות - such as אבן and מלך. The word נדר is no different. It can imply סמיכות or no סמיכות; it's not a matter of the vowels.MGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1866132022161856151.post-44805932988808134262009-07-17T00:46:05.958-04:002009-07-17T00:46:05.958-04:00Unfortunately, I will have to recant as it appears...Unfortunately, I will have to recant as it appears clear from במדבר ו:ב,ו etc. that נֶדֶר with a סגול can definitely imply סמיכות as well.<br /><br />So then the burning question is: what defines which vowel find itself under the נ?Shtiklerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07498936768989355610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1866132022161856151.post-12794636163652320992009-07-17T00:28:46.129-04:002009-07-17T00:28:46.129-04:00Your point is well taken, that the word נֵדֶר does...Your point is well taken, that the word נֵדֶר does not <b>specifically</b> imply סמיכות.<br />However, don't be so hasty in dishing out the negativity.<br />Whether or not נֵדֶר is always סמיכות is actually irrelevant to the main point. What is important is that clearly it can mean סמיכות as in פסוק י.<br />The אמיתות of my point - that נֶדֶר with a סגול must be corrected - depends on two questions:<br />1) Does נֶדֶר with a סגול automatically imply a lack of סמיכות? I believe the answer to that question is <b>Yes</b>. Although, if you have a proof otherwise, I'd be glad to hear it.<br />and <br />2) Am I correct in understanding this specific instance of נֵדֶר with a צרי to be סמיכות? Of that, I am unsure. The תרגום אונקלום is identical regardless - נְדַר<br />If the answer to both questions is Yes then I am correct in asserting that pronouncing it נֶדֶר with a סגול is definitely wrong.Shtiklerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07498936768989355610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1866132022161856151.post-23211536006100061492009-07-16T22:27:04.741-04:002009-07-16T22:27:04.741-04:00I'm glad you qualified this with that first se...I'm glad you qualified this with that first sentence! Wait for it: you're wrong.<br />See Vayikra 22:23 and the Mesora there. Clearly that pasuk can not be read as semichus. See also Shmuel 2, 15:8.MGnoreply@blogger.com