Friday, April 3, 2009

Gender of קרבן

So in the week's פרשה as well as last's, we dicuss the קרבן עולָה. Why is a קרבן considered feminine? And if it is feminine, why do we refer to a קרבן עולֶה ויורד? That would imply that it is masculine. Is this yet another example of what we have been dicussing a lot recently - the case of the "hidden word?"

8 comments:

MG said...

Stop the madness, please!
"Korban" is loshon zachar. Why in the world would it be loshon nekeivah (please don't tell me because the plural is "korbanos")?
See Parshas Tzav (Vayikrah 6:13): "zeh korban...", not "zos korban".
As far as your question about "korban olah": do you also think the word "sefer" is loshon nekeivah because we say "sefer Torah"? There are a million examples of semichut of two words where one is loshon zachar and one is nekeivah.

Shtikler said...

Ok, take a deep breath. Obviously קרבן is masculine. But the question still stands.
As far as your "proof" from sefer Torah - that's just silly. Torah is a noun. The problem here is that Olah is a verb, or at least appears to be. So the real question, and perhaps it wasn't worded clearly enough, is what is the item/noun which is "going up" that makes olah feminine?
(Note that I do not question chatas which is feminine vs asham which is masculine. It's the verb that is bothering me.)

MG said...

"Torah" is a noun, but its source is a verb, "to teach". "Olah" is a noun as well, when it is referring to a particular type of korban. I don't see where it "appears" to be a verb. The Torah uses "olah" as a stand-alone noun and does not pair it with "korban".
If your original question was, Why is this particular korban referenced as feminine, fine, but then what does that have to do with a "korban oleh v'yoreid", which has nothing to do with a korban olah? Forgive me if I keep misunderstanding your question.

Shtikler said...

Ok, forget עולה ויורד. That was simply to contrast the masculine and feminine with the irony of the same word.
The question remains: Why is עולה feminine?

MG said...

I'm sill not sure that was the intent of your original question, but nonetheless, the Sifrei Chassidus do point out that the term "Olah" is referencing a person's nefesh (feminine), which ascends to higher levels as the korban is brought.
A korban oleh v'yoreid is a completely different animal, pun intended. "Oleh" is a verb in that case, and has nothing to do with a korban olah.
I take it your follow up question is why is "nefesh" feminine?

Shtikler said...

No, why would I ask that? It just is.
My next question, in fact, is what's the real peshat?

MG said...

Didn't think "it's just is" was an acceptable answer, especially with respect to dikduk.
The nefesh is a mekabel, therefore it is feminine. Perhaps the one bringing the Olah is also a mekabel, because he is being elevated. I didn't realize that we weren't allowed to use Sifrei Chassidus in here. We're all trying to get at the truth. Can't we all just get along?

ELIE said...

אם אני מבין נכון
עולָה אינו פועל
גם לא עולֶה
אבל כשאנו רואים הרבה מילים בלשון זכר והרבה בלשון נקבה איננו שואלים
למה ספר הוא זכר ולמה מצוה הוא נקבה
מה שאולי יש לשאול למה עולה עם קמץ ולא עולה עם סגול
אולי (אבל יכולות להיות סיבות רבות אחרות) כדי להבחין בין הפעולה של עלייה
ובין שם הקרבן
לא הייתי מתפלא לו הרבן שלמים היה מכונה "שַׁלְמָה" כמו תודה