Thursday, January 31, 2008

Reader שאלה

Can you explain me please the גאון's opinion that after a melupum, וּ in the beginning of a word, the שוא following it will be a נח, and even though the letters afterwards (בג"ד כפ"ת) will be without a דגש? And why is ובשכבך an exception to that?

Thanks

Do you have any דקדוק vorts on this פרשה, specifically related to שוא? Thank you

Avrohom Adler

http://kollelbokerbeachwood.com/

http://www.daf-yomi.org/

6 comments:

ELIE said...

בעניין ו' החיבור לפני שוא או לפני במפ

[במקרא אין ו' החיבור לפני ו']
צדקת מדובר בתנועה קטנה
וגם אם כתוב וישֻׁבו
ברור שתחת הש' תנועה גדולה
בענין ובשכבך
הב' הראשונה היא בשוא נח
אע"פ שיש געיא (מתג) לפניה
ומצאנו כמה וכמה פעמים געיא לפני הברה סגורה בשוא נח או בדגש

ELIE said...

I WANTED TO PUT A FEW חידושים IN דקדוק OVER HERE,
BUT I AM TOLD THAT MY CONNECTION IS EXPIRED.
I TRYED TO EMAIL R SHTIKLER, BUT FOR NO AVAIL.

MDJ said...

One way to look at it is that a melupum at the begining of the word is not really a t'nuah gedola. Thus the shva is nach, and BG"D KF"T has no dagesh. However, this is only true if there is no meteg under the vav, in that case, the shva is na. UNLESS the word has too many syllables (more than 3, I think). In that case, the shva is nach,even with the meteg. These things are dealt with in early masoretic works like the dikdukei te'amim.
One question I have is why you refer to u'vshoch'bcha as an exception (under your assumptions). The shva under the shin is nach, as per the Gaon's rule.

Shtikler said...

The Artscroll siddur follows the GR"A's ruling and generally does not make a שוא נע under a letter following the melupum. However, they do indicate a שוא נע under ובשכבך, it would seem because they understood it was an exception to the rule due to the מתג. Perhaps that is what is behind Avrohom's assumption.

ELIE said...

בעניין זה היו לי דיונים עם הרב מנדלבאום בעל דקדוקי ש"י
אמרתי לו שהגר"א לא התכוון למתג של ובשכבך
קרוב לודאי שבספרים במקומו של הגר"א מתג זה לא היה קיים כמו שאינו בחומשים ה"פשוטים"

ולכן סימן הנע בארט סקרול הוא טעות

Avromi said...

shtikler: you are right in your assumption, but it is more than artscroll; other siddurim seem to say the same as well.

another question: the word "deshe" in breishis 1:11 should be a revi'i or a z.katan?

thank you